I have spoke on this before but here are a few quotes I wanted to share from a few of them and in the next post I will give a little more about the way I see it in an United Methodist Church perspective:
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It all started with this post from Chris:
“My truck is paid off but the gas prices are killing me. I don’t drive that much and its over $300 per month, not including my wife’s car. So what does this project to as a national economy? Recession seems inevitable, will it go way beyond that? A nation already ruled by fear and over-spending with no margins by individuals and the government, what will be the consequences?
How will this impact churches and mortgages and credit lines that can’t be fed? As builders pass on who are the committed givers what is left? 1/2 of boomers are there to give and the other 1/2 are driven past their financial margins with consumerism and can’t help. Gen X and Millenials have very little value in long term comittments, are all about instant gratification and consumerism is their native language. Commonly this group of up and comers are living on 125-140% of their income taking on exponential debt per year. What will be the result of these decisions having no margins when the shoe drops?
Will American churches go the way of their European counterparts? Becoming really funky coffee houses, restaraunts, art galleries and dance clubs. Just things I wonder about.”
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and this is a second round from Chris in this post:
“But what I want to re-iterate is that everything needs to be submitted before God. Our expectations of what a comfortable American living has to be submitted. Our expectations of where we hold community meetings has to be submitted. Our assumptions of what we envision our role in the church being has to be submitted. Our financial margins and use of physical resources has to be submitted. Our sense of comfort and security has to be submitted. Where God calls, God provides and that will come at least in the form of daily bread. If we claim to follow Christ, that has to be enough for us. We have to be very careful to guard against making “professional” what is a spiritual role.
It is the sense of entitlement that I am speaking against when it comes to vocational roles in ministry. I am not against the idea of being paid, I am against the assumption that its the way it always has been and always will be. God does not owe us anything! Not a job, not a title of honor, not an air-conditioned office nor full time hours a week to be a spiritual leader. Now his provision may emody all of that for you, but we have to be okay if it doesn’t. Truly, his grace needs to be sufficient for us and its not our place to demand more. Don’t run from suffering, embrace it. Let it change you. Let it bring you to deeper exeperiences of God’s hand on your life. Sweating blood on your night of Gaethsamane crying out to God to take care of your family is what dependence on Him looks like sometimes. If he desires to move in a different mode of paradigm, in submission, we have to be ready to go with him because there is no one else who holds the words of life.
So in this discussion I want to say that we as the Church need to be ready and willing to do whatever it takes to be the people of God on earth and embody his mission here.”
Chris Marshall
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Then Aaron chimes in on his response post:
“What if ministry was defined as beginning and ending with the relationships that already exist in our lives? Of course, we would begin new relationships – some intentionally so – but they are not a means to an end. We take on the role of friend as opposed to director, parent or mentor as opposed to expert, brother or sister as opposed to business partner.
Such a ministry would necessitate a different understanding of finances. Since the intent is not to build a mechanism by which to get Jesus (or get people to Jesus) or a commercial by which to promote Jesus, then we are freed to use our funds for community growth and development. By which, I mean, of course – “Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven”. The growth and development of the community of faith blessing and serving the world is an inherently relational project. However that community of faith is by its very nature bound by the laws of relationship (i.e. knowing and being know). The result being that the need for managers and administrators for that community is decreased.”
Aaron Klinefelter
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Jason then chimes in on his response post:
“It’s true. We’ve got to start thinking long term about some of this. The trends do not seem to say that we can fend this off by building bigger, regional churches. Though there is limited success there, I don’t see it being a long term fix to a growing problem. I’ve said this before, but I really don’t think the experts have many answers for us. They have too much invested in the Christendom machine. So, it’s going to be up to the rank and file folks to come up with the solutions.
For example, I’ve just been checking out a few video clips of the stuff Alan and Allelon are talking about on their site. It’s good stuff. But while it seems to be covering the theological shifts necessary we’re still in serious need of how to do the practical stuff. All the while, we watch pastors that have seen the necessary shifts, follow those shifts and sink further into debt and depression trying to figure this out all alone… not a good place to be when you’re trying to reinvigorate the Body of Christ.
Both planters and pastors have got to do self-image re-alignment, learn other skills/trades, learn how to be entrepreneurs, become community organizers, etc. No longer can we depend upon our previous economic paradigms within the Church…”
Jason
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And Alan chimes in with a Roman Catholic response post (but the part I put here is the end and applies to everyone):
“Things seem to be moving in a direction that might cause us all to have to rethink what we spend, what we build, how we pay our staff, etc. Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, whatever – things will change and we will all have to face it sooner or later. This all makes me remember a story an old Priest told me about something a friend said to him who had spent a lot of time in Rome, that the best thing that could happen to the Catholic Church is for an oppressive government to take over and strip it of all it’s wealth, tear the external institution down and push it back into the catacombs. OK, the catacombs part was my creative addition, but you get my point. And it’s not only the Catholic Church but much of the rest of the whole Church – let us all lose the ability to own buildings, to pay our leaders or our tax exemptions. Bring it! Where would our focus be then? Maybe on the Kingdom of God, something novel like that. It’s time for some Body of Christ creativity. Maybe we should start practicing now – maybe. Lord have mercy.”
Alan Creech
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And here a guy named Mark gives a great response post:
“The down side to this is that the mainstream church has all of its vast resources tied up in maintaining the status quo (even if they are innovating their practices, they are largely doing so in a way that reinforces the dominant Christendom paradigm). As a result, these subversive pioneers are doing a LOT with very little. And they are doing it in a way that escapes the notice of the mainstream. Why? Because the mainstream lacks the lens to notice what is happening and why these pioneers are doing a vital job.
I know this sounds dramatic. Because it is. I’d like to think I am one of these pioneers. I have, in the same week, been told by one mainstream Christian that “I have little to show for myself” and been told by one supportive friend in Philadelphia that “it is amazing I am able to accomplish so much.” I share this to highlight that people see what they are looking for. The mainstream church is looking for practitioners who can maintain the status quo. These starving ecclesial artists are looking for ways of being faithful in the future.
Our task isn’t to keep Christianity going as usual. Instead, we need to find ways of equipping and enpowering the next generation to do ministry in a way that is sustainable, even if we are currently struggling with doing sustainable ministry.”
Mark Van Steenwky
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And even Kevin chimed in here in this post:
“There are strategic reasons why I don’t work full time in paid ministry: Namely I am around “normal” (aka non-christians) all day every day. I have a reason to be involved in many peoples lives and am available to them and I know them not as a professional minister but as a friend and co-worker. This also gives me multiple entry points into the life of my city. I am known by several on city council and by the mayor as well as the fire department (they do my permits for the shop) and the police department (I fix many of their cars).
- Others are empowered to serve and don’t overly depend on me. Because I have a full time job in the “real world” (I know that is faulty but it is where most people are and we’re trying to contextualize right?) people naturally understand that I am not available to do every wedding, counseling session, or ministry idea that they want me to do for them… it creates a high ownership environment where everyone has jobs and everyone contributes as they can to the mission in the neighborhood.
- It ain’t perfect, neat and clean… I remember a conversation I had with Todd Hunter, Mark Palmer, and Jason Evans where Todd said to us that we would likely have to “cobble something together from a job, support raising, part time staff etc… This is a transitional time and transitions aren’t tidy.” When it comes to day to day realities we all know that there is not a perfect answer or one size fits all. We have to just put the pieces together as they come to us and move toward ideals over time.
- There are prophetic reasons to not get paid by a church namely you can fully speak your mind/heart/word of the Lord and not have in the back of your mind “what will happen if I offend a big giver?” or “I can’t afford to lose my benefits and retirement so I better watch my step in this situation.”
Kevin Rains
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And i will post concerning this in a United Methodist context in the next post. it seems to be very clear that God is working on the hearts and lives of several people at the same time!!! Dang yo!
LORD have mercy…..
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Oh God, come to our assistance. O Lord, make haste to help us.
Praise the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, both now and forever, the God who is, who was, and is the come at the end of the ages. Alleluia.
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The entire United Methodist Church is being represented by almost 1,000 people, and several hunderds more this week in Ft. Worth, TX. They gather to discern the will of God for his people who call themselves United Methodists. This happens every four years, and the event is called General Conference. They represent clergy and laity from every conference all over the entire face of the earth. Who represent every local church in this humongous denomination. And I beg you to pray for them. My father is one of them and a sweet friend and fellow United Methodist Woman (yeah I know if you really want to know how I am one, just email or text me, heh.. it is one of the perks of being a UMC Pastor, heh)
For those of you who are not religious, or just not Christian readers, or maybe those who are attending General Conference this week, there is a movement going on in the church… the whole Christian church. Some call it Emergent, Emerging, post modernism, etc… But it is a movement of a cry of souls from within, for those who claim Jesus as their Lord and King, who say they now live in a new Kingdom, not a democracy, not a denomination, but a Kingdom that has been ushered in by a single man/God whom was and is called Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Teacher, Friend, Brother, Son, Lord, LORD, God, Trinity person. We who claim this man as our king and savior (from selfishness, death, and power), are calling for everyone who now lives and continues to bring his Kingdom to come here on earth as it is in heaven to no longer be satisfied with the status quo, or “the way we have always done it”, or even “we honestly were following God for a time and did not realize that we were loosing touch with true Kingdom reality”.
We realized that we were just as guilty as those who came before us (and are with us now), but there is something inside of all of us that is not satisfied, quenched, or feed. We are restless, unable to hear the clear beautiful voice of God! And we are willing to sacrifice our lives, our families, our careers, our reputations, and our homes to follow the LORD and King of THE Kingdom! We are OK with looking like we are insane, stupid, lazy, young, and unexperienced for the sake of our Triune God, and the people and creation that He loves!
My personal fear, is that this voice is being represented in (a VERY few) cases by those whom are laity in the UMC, and a HUGELY RARE) case (if any) by young clergy. And while there are several other hearts and souls that cry with ours that are older, we fear that they are few and far between and beg for everyone to listen to God’s still small constant voice calling us to to be the example, feet, hands, voice, and loving kindness of the one we call our King, savior, and friend.
And unless we are heard, empowered, plugged in, and joined with, then we fear that the one thing that we love and care for just as much as this creation, and those whom God loves most, is this beautiful bride of our King called the United Methodist Church. We cry out to each of us, “We Love You”, our desire is not for death, separation, or distance, but for unity, passion, authencity, peace, grace, and most of all love. The kind of love that lives and breaths. The kind of love working to bring about restoration, communication, and reformation. A love that at its core is Christ, and Christ alone for the sake of this world and all those whom live in the arms of this beautifully created earth!!!
Lord, save us! Save us while we are awake, protect us while we are asleep, that we may keep our watch with Christ, and when we sleep, rest in his peace. Alleluia!
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Lord, have mercy.
Christ, have mercy.
LORD, have mercy. let us pray………………..
Here are my notes from a discussion Gary and I had with the clergy of the Louisville District here in the KY Conference of the UMC. I would love to know if yall have any reactions or would like to continue the discussion…
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• What have you done with Young Adult ministry?
• Where have you failed?
• What are your assumptions about young adults?
• What would you like to do with young adults?
YA’s are:
*passionate about community and relationships
* have an uncanny ability to see through “fake”, or “agendas”…and this is the reason that I find most “seeker services” not to be effective at true transformation. (sadly most churches think to reach YA’s that they just have to have a new worship service with “hipper”/”cooler” music.. but this is just not the case.
* passionate about social justice
* love talking about Jesus, but also about Buddha, Hinduism, etc…. live in idealism, but an intelligent reality.
*This is why we must allow messy conversation, and TIME!!!
* The Majority of this generation did not grow up in the church or even receive their fist understandings of faith inside the Christian church.
Potential is Unbelievable: They have a passion for living life in the here and now, like no generations in the past. They are HIGHLY sacrificial in their nature.. most generations take that as being lazy, but they see it as being content and passionate to live the way they feel passionate about. Put emphasis on art, community, and social justice, and Spirituality! They are willing to sell the suburb house to move on the wrong side of the tracks to live out a life that is authentic and bringing chance to poor neighborhoods, etc…
We have not been in conversation with the world! We talk AT people with bible studies, sermons, lessons. And thoses all have an assumption that we are right, and we believe we are right, but YA’s value relationships.. and in relationships the effective ones are not ones that people talk at each other, but WITH each other! It is fine to believe that you are right about beliving in Jesus, but do not assume that they think the same way. Invite them into discussion and wrestle with them in this thing called life.
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Agree? disagree? feel free to start/join the discussion.
Well, if you have a dog, and like ot chew sugarless gum, I suggest that you loose your taste for the gum, and go with gum that is filled with sugar!
Halo about two weeks ago, decided to put his nose into one of the purses of one of the youth that we were entertaining at our house. Now, this is not unusual in anyway, Halo is a Beagle and therefore his life and mind are ruled by one thing…his nose. And Halo is a smart enough dog that in the past he has been able to unzip purses to get inside and find all kinds of good “treats”. Well, this time he got into a purse with sugarless gum. And I had no idea that almost all sugarless gum has a chemical in it called, Xylitol. And this chemical, is deadly to dogs. For some reason this drug when ingested by dogs causes their blood sugar to slowly drop over the course of two days and then their liver shuts down killing them…. the sad thing is that over the course of the two days nothing is noticeable other than the dog might be a little more tired than usual, and then by the time their liver shuts down it is too late for medical care.
The drug is so dangerous, that one gram of the drug in the sugarless gum causes death, and usually each piece/stick has 2 grams of it! Well, when Tiffany found Halo with the entire package opened and they got to counting it was around 10 pieces that he had eaten.
And by the grace of God Tiffany remembered hearing somewhere that sugarless gum was bad for dogs, immediately yelled down stairs where I was playing Halo 3 with other youth telling of the fact, wel, I did not know that it was bad for dogs, so i just blew it off… well, my genius wife decides to check the internet and finds out all the info that I just gave above! And then she proceeds to take Halo to the emergency hospital in Wilder. (I was not too excited about this, because it is something like $75 just to walk in the door. But, they got halo in and immediatly induced vomiting and then put him on a glucose IV drip. and kept him on watch (suicide watch is what Tiffany and I called it) overnight… we then went to pick him, up expecting to take him home, and they tell us to take his straight to our vet for them to keep him, and they decide to keep him over night as well, and at one point that day they called Tiffany and told her they thought his liver was shutting down and they might need to call her back with bad news…. aaarrrggg.. i was in Lexington the whole day…anyway, long story shorter, Halo came home and even to this day continues to take a pill each day to make sure his liver is OK….but throughout it all it cost us $850. And I mean wow! Here is a dog that brings us so much joy everyday, but that is about to run into the money that we personally (not the help from parents or others) have saved up to pay for us to someday have a baby…and it was a very tough time for Tiffany, but decisions were made and we still have a wonderful loving Halo!
BUT, if you are a dog lover, PLEASE remove all sugarless gum from your house and let visitors know if they bring in purses, coats, etc…..
KUTPs!!!! and have a great day!
for more info on the drug Xylitol click below:
A report in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association has just shown a link between the sugar substitute Xylitol, and illnesses in dogs. In fact, it is so bad, possibly causing acute liver failure that out of eight dogs found to have ingested Xylitol, 5 died or had to be euthanized.
Xylitol is a commonly used sweetener used in sugarfree gums, candies and even baked goods. So keep an eye on the ingredients when feeding your dog human treats.
Well, the blog is looking a little more like I had imagined that it could look! And a special thanks to my friend Court who showed me the wonders of firebug…a great extension for firefox! Anyway it looks much better now and I have Court to thank for it.. oh and Ben as well…he freaking rocks! Go check out their sites and support them:
ben’s site
ben’s businss (for all your design needs)
court’s site
court’s business (for all your airplane gaming needs)
THANKS yall!!!!
That is right I did not say rent, or even check out.. I said, BUY! This movie!
I just watched this movie that I rented via Netflix (and yes, as soon as I get some money I will buy it!)
But seriously, it is a date movie, musical, and tons of other words that would describe it as a chick flick, but I am telling you it is AMAZING! You would do wonders for your heart, mind, and soul to watch this movie.
Warning..it is shot like a documentary, and is rated R for the language (it is just like real life…crazy huh? heh heh)…but seriously if you have not seen it… you should not die without watching it!
yeah it is that good…. wow!
Ok and here is a quote from my friend Alan, who is quoting someone else that I just had to put up here!!!
Take it away Alan:
OK, please do yourself a favor and go read this. It’s a fairly lengthy blog post by Fr. Al Kimel about our views of God’s love, forgiveness, how we look at sin, etc. He’s mostly interacting with thoughts expressed in a book by Dominican theologian Fr. Herbert McCabe. I’ve added a new book to my wish list now. Good stuff. It will be challenging for some to read, but it’s good.
I snagged this particular quote from Fr. Alvin’s post, just to wet the appetite…
“It is very odd that people should think that when we do good God will reward us and when we do evil he will punish us. I mean it is very odd that Christians should think this, that God deals out to us what we deserve. … I don’t believe in God if that’s what he is, and it is very odd that any Christian should, since there is so much in the gospels to tell us differently. You could say that the main theme of the preaching of Jesus is that God isn’t like that at all” (God, Christ and Us, p. 11)
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AMEN! I used this quote today, and it was for me… thank you God for not giving me something that I think I deserve! You are THE God I serve…not matter the circumstance! Amen!
Oh and BTW: Alan has just started his own graphic Design company..so if you need anything like that (web design, or business cards, or print material, or logos…he is your man)! Go give this guy some money so he can feed his family! Thanks! and God bless yall!
(cool logo Carl…or who ever made it!)
Hey everyone here is a great link to summarize a few of the sessions and a few power points from the sessions at the event!
http://emergingumc.blospot.com
if you just want the MP3s/podcasts then go here:
This is a freaking awesome site and podcast BTW! (love ya Carl!)
And I think this is the first official podcast with my voice in it! So enjoy!
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I think this is a FREAKING cool logo:
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OK, Tiffany and I were in Michael’s the other day and I just had to buy these:
There will not be any question as to the gender this year of our Christmas Tree! Can’t wait to hang them!
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Oh and this one has a great story behind it!…As some of you know, I was at an “emergingumc: a gathering” event in Nashville, TN this past weekend! It was great and a fun time was had by all!
Now a few of you need some background on this picture. The unofficial headquarters of most of the world wide denomination of the United Methodist Church is found in Nashville. And the building that we had all of our sessions and discussions in was the General Board of Discipleship of the entire United Methodist Church. (GBOD for short). The building that the beer truck is parked in front of is this building! It was so funny that i just had to get a picture of it!
(now, please know that the truck was unloading across the street to a restaurant, and NOT to the GBOD, but it was too classic of a statement!) God bless yall, and KUTPs!!!
My friend Alan had a Myers-Briggs kind of assessment on his blog, and so knowing that they change all the time in one’s life, I decided to go ahead and see what I was now-a-days. here it is:
And here is the description…yall tell me if it is right or wrong….(sometimes I wonder if my wife should fill this out fro me instead of me, heh.)
Here is the website’s description:
ENTPs are logical, innovative, curious and downright inventive. They see possibilities for improvement everywhere and possess the ability to understand complex concepts. ENTPs are introspective and carefree nonconformists. They often neglect the more common areas of life while pursuing new solutions. ENTPs can be good conversationalists and exciting company.
If you want to know uch more about this personality type just go here.
Dear Friends, Family, and Lovers of Christ…and everyone else (heh),
I greet you and invite you to join me in bringing The Kingdom of God into the lives of others.
For some time now, I have been feeling a call to be the hands and feet of Christ in some form of foreign missions. One of the places that God has been teasing me with is Guatemala. I have never been to this country, but it just kept on coming up in conversations and in my thoughts for the past few months. Then, I went to a worship service with some friends and the topic arose that they were sending a group of guys and maybe a few gals to Guatemala to bring the Kingdom into fruition in the hearts and lives and communities in Guatemala! I knew that God wanted me to go!
I will be following the lead of God traveling to Guatemala July 17th through the 27th. While there, I will be serving alongside friends that serve Vineyard Central (a network of house churches in Cincinnati. And a cousin church to Th3 Waters) Currently, it looks like we will be serving Christ by helping gang prisoners, orphans, schools, and any other ministry that might need our assistance. The amount of money I am trying to raise to go on this mission that includes airfare/shots/food/lodging is $1,200, and any extra money raised will go towards any other missional needs in Guatemala!
But, please above all else, shower us and those God desires for us to minister to in prayer!
Two ways you can financially support this Kingdom event:
1. Directly to me: D.G. Hollums, 8585 Old Toll Road, Florence, KY 41042 (by mail/check)
OR
2. for a tax deduction: Vineyard Central, 1757 Mills Avenue, Norwood, OH 45212
Here are stories from Vineyard Central from previous mission trips
We will be staying with a friend Jeremiah and his family who live in Guatemala as missionaries.
Please go to his website to learn more about how he and his family are making a difference and a sample of what we may be doing.
Thank you again for all your help, prayers, thoughts, and financial support.
Thank you for your support! God bless yall…and now more than ever KUTPs!!
OK, so thank you for everyone that has contacted me giving me a hard time about not blogging as of late. Well, I went to Sheila and Steven’s wedding (for those who do know know her, she is my brother’s widow) (is that still true now that you got married Sheila?…not sure oh well anyway) If yall would like to see what I have been up to, then just go to my Flickr page, there are pictures of the wedding, Jay’s headstone, Jay’s old church, and even one picture from the butterfly exhibit that I went to yesterday during lunch with Scott! Here is a photo re-cap:
OK… so there is a little bit and much more can be found on my Flickr page:
My Flickr
Oh, and I will be gone all next week @ the always fun, famous, sometimes boring, never duplicated, Annual Conference of the KY Conference of the UMC!!!!! Oh and BIG news and I need you help! What is it you ask? read the next post…….coming soon.
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