Here is a quote of a quote from my friend Eric Keib! I loved it so much I had to put it on my blog.. and I am a huge N.T. Wright fan, of course!
Quote of a quote:
“In the latest Newsweek, Jon Meacham and Lisa Miller interview N.T. Wright about his latest book Surprised by Hope. Although I have recently purchased it I have not yet read it but plan to dig in in the next few weeks.
Meacham and Miller, close to the end of the article, ask him the following question:
“At the Lambeth meeting this summer, the subject of gay unions and gay clergy with top the agenda. What do you think will happen?”
Wright admits that although he believes it will be “messy” that he has hopes that people will really listen to each other prayerfully and in a spirit of humility. Then he says the following that I cannot help but adding a very emphatic “AMEN!” to:
“At the same time, I wish we could prioritize so that we were actually talking about issues of global justice and debt remission and global warming and so on. I mean, there’s something very bizarre about the rich arguing about sex while the poor are clamoring for justice“” (emphasis is Eric’s..but I fully support it, heh)
I was listening to Tiffany talk about an individual speaking to someone else about why the US flag was not in a more “visible” place in the sanctuary. And I have got to tell you that kills me! I actually have problems with the US flag being in the sanctuary period! I have a feeling somewhere down the road Christians have decided that politics and faith are so closely connected that they shoulo dnot be apart, but when I read the bible I see Christ consistently dealing with the politics and government of the day. And when he talks about a Kingdom it was meant to be a direct dig on the currently government!!! So come on Christianity, is it a democracy you have chosen to be a part of, or is it a King and a Kingdom? There is nothing wrong with our democracy and I saw Christ working within the one that he lived in where here, but when it comes to your life are you getting caught up in the King and his kingdom, or the government that you find yourself living in?
So, this made me think about a few words from Derek Webb, of who’s concert I went to last Thursday @ VC…..I was reminded how much I love his music and lyrics.. and I decided to share a few of them with yall:
Album: Mockingbird
Year: 2005
Title: A King & A Kingdom |
|
who’s your brother, who’s your sister
you just walked passed him
i think you missed her
as we’re all migrating to the place where our father lives
’cause we married in to a family of immigrants
my first allegiance is not to a flag, a country, or a man
my first allegiance is not to democracy or blood
it’s to a king & a kingdom
there are two great lies that i’ve heard:
“the day you eat of the fruit of that tree, you will not surely die”
and that Jesus Christ was a white, middle-class republican
and if you wanna be saved you have to learn to be like Him
but nothing unifies like a common enemy
and we’ve got one, sure as hell
but he may be living in your house
he may be raising up your kids
he may be sleeping with your wife
oh no, he may not look like you think=====================================
And another:
Wedding Dress
if you could love me as a wife
and for my wedding gift, your life
should that be all i’ll ever need
or is there more i’m looking for
and should i read between the lines
and look for blessings in disguise
to make me handsome, rich, and wise
is that really what you want
i am a whore i do confess
but i put you on just like a wedding dress
and i run down the aisle
i’m a prodigal with no way home
but i put you on just like a ring of gold
and i run down the aisle to you
so could you love this bastard child
though i don’t trust you to provide
with one hand in a pot of gold
and with the other in your side
i am so easily satisfied
by the call of lovers less wild
that i would take a little cash
over your very flesh and blood
because money cannot buy
a husband’s jealous eye
when you have knowingly deceived his wife
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Well what do yall think? Sadly, I have a feeling not matter how much I would love to sing these lyrics in church that I doubt there would be too many United Methodist Churchs that would allow me. But, maybe not.. 
I have spoke on this before but here are a few quotes I wanted to share from a few of them and in the next post I will give a little more about the way I see it in an United Methodist Church perspective:
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It all started with this post from Chris:
“My truck is paid off but the gas prices are killing me. I don’t drive that much and its over $300 per month, not including my wife’s car. So what does this project to as a national economy? Recession seems inevitable, will it go way beyond that? A nation already ruled by fear and over-spending with no margins by individuals and the government, what will be the consequences?
How will this impact churches and mortgages and credit lines that can’t be fed? As builders pass on who are the committed givers what is left? 1/2 of boomers are there to give and the other 1/2 are driven past their financial margins with consumerism and can’t help. Gen X and Millenials have very little value in long term comittments, are all about instant gratification and consumerism is their native language. Commonly this group of up and comers are living on 125-140% of their income taking on exponential debt per year. What will be the result of these decisions having no margins when the shoe drops?
Will American churches go the way of their European counterparts? Becoming really funky coffee houses, restaraunts, art galleries and dance clubs. Just things I wonder about.”
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and this is a second round from Chris in this post:
“But what I want to re-iterate is that everything needs to be submitted before God. Our expectations of what a comfortable American living has to be submitted. Our expectations of where we hold community meetings has to be submitted. Our assumptions of what we envision our role in the church being has to be submitted. Our financial margins and use of physical resources has to be submitted. Our sense of comfort and security has to be submitted. Where God calls, God provides and that will come at least in the form of daily bread. If we claim to follow Christ, that has to be enough for us. We have to be very careful to guard against making “professional” what is a spiritual role.
It is the sense of entitlement that I am speaking against when it comes to vocational roles in ministry. I am not against the idea of being paid, I am against the assumption that its the way it always has been and always will be. God does not owe us anything! Not a job, not a title of honor, not an air-conditioned office nor full time hours a week to be a spiritual leader. Now his provision may emody all of that for you, but we have to be okay if it doesn’t. Truly, his grace needs to be sufficient for us and its not our place to demand more. Don’t run from suffering, embrace it. Let it change you. Let it bring you to deeper exeperiences of God’s hand on your life. Sweating blood on your night of Gaethsamane crying out to God to take care of your family is what dependence on Him looks like sometimes. If he desires to move in a different mode of paradigm, in submission, we have to be ready to go with him because there is no one else who holds the words of life.
So in this discussion I want to say that we as the Church need to be ready and willing to do whatever it takes to be the people of God on earth and embody his mission here.”
Chris Marshall
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Then Aaron chimes in on his response post:
“What if ministry was defined as beginning and ending with the relationships that already exist in our lives? Of course, we would begin new relationships – some intentionally so – but they are not a means to an end. We take on the role of friend as opposed to director, parent or mentor as opposed to expert, brother or sister as opposed to business partner.
Such a ministry would necessitate a different understanding of finances. Since the intent is not to build a mechanism by which to get Jesus (or get people to Jesus) or a commercial by which to promote Jesus, then we are freed to use our funds for community growth and development. By which, I mean, of course – “Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven”. The growth and development of the community of faith blessing and serving the world is an inherently relational project. However that community of faith is by its very nature bound by the laws of relationship (i.e. knowing and being know). The result being that the need for managers and administrators for that community is decreased.”
Aaron Klinefelter
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Jason then chimes in on his response post:
“It’s true. We’ve got to start thinking long term about some of this. The trends do not seem to say that we can fend this off by building bigger, regional churches. Though there is limited success there, I don’t see it being a long term fix to a growing problem. I’ve said this before, but I really don’t think the experts have many answers for us. They have too much invested in the Christendom machine. So, it’s going to be up to the rank and file folks to come up with the solutions.
For example, I’ve just been checking out a few video clips of the stuff Alan and Allelon are talking about on their site. It’s good stuff. But while it seems to be covering the theological shifts necessary we’re still in serious need of how to do the practical stuff. All the while, we watch pastors that have seen the necessary shifts, follow those shifts and sink further into debt and depression trying to figure this out all alone… not a good place to be when you’re trying to reinvigorate the Body of Christ.
Both planters and pastors have got to do self-image re-alignment, learn other skills/trades, learn how to be entrepreneurs, become community organizers, etc. No longer can we depend upon our previous economic paradigms within the Church…”
Jason
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And Alan chimes in with a Roman Catholic response post (but the part I put here is the end and applies to everyone):
“Things seem to be moving in a direction that might cause us all to have to rethink what we spend, what we build, how we pay our staff, etc. Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, whatever – things will change and we will all have to face it sooner or later. This all makes me remember a story an old Priest told me about something a friend said to him who had spent a lot of time in Rome, that the best thing that could happen to the Catholic Church is for an oppressive government to take over and strip it of all it’s wealth, tear the external institution down and push it back into the catacombs. OK, the catacombs part was my creative addition, but you get my point. And it’s not only the Catholic Church but much of the rest of the whole Church – let us all lose the ability to own buildings, to pay our leaders or our tax exemptions. Bring it! Where would our focus be then? Maybe on the Kingdom of God, something novel like that. It’s time for some Body of Christ creativity. Maybe we should start practicing now – maybe. Lord have mercy.”
Alan Creech
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And here a guy named Mark gives a great response post:
“The down side to this is that the mainstream church has all of its vast resources tied up in maintaining the status quo (even if they are innovating their practices, they are largely doing so in a way that reinforces the dominant Christendom paradigm). As a result, these subversive pioneers are doing a LOT with very little. And they are doing it in a way that escapes the notice of the mainstream. Why? Because the mainstream lacks the lens to notice what is happening and why these pioneers are doing a vital job.
I know this sounds dramatic. Because it is. I’d like to think I am one of these pioneers. I have, in the same week, been told by one mainstream Christian that “I have little to show for myself” and been told by one supportive friend in Philadelphia that “it is amazing I am able to accomplish so much.” I share this to highlight that people see what they are looking for. The mainstream church is looking for practitioners who can maintain the status quo. These starving ecclesial artists are looking for ways of being faithful in the future.
Our task isn’t to keep Christianity going as usual. Instead, we need to find ways of equipping and enpowering the next generation to do ministry in a way that is sustainable, even if we are currently struggling with doing sustainable ministry.”
Mark Van Steenwky
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And even Kevin chimed in here in this post:
“There are strategic reasons why I don’t work full time in paid ministry: Namely I am around “normal” (aka non-christians) all day every day. I have a reason to be involved in many peoples lives and am available to them and I know them not as a professional minister but as a friend and co-worker. This also gives me multiple entry points into the life of my city. I am known by several on city council and by the mayor as well as the fire department (they do my permits for the shop) and the police department (I fix many of their cars).
- Others are empowered to serve and don’t overly depend on me. Because I have a full time job in the “real world” (I know that is faulty but it is where most people are and we’re trying to contextualize right?) people naturally understand that I am not available to do every wedding, counseling session, or ministry idea that they want me to do for them… it creates a high ownership environment where everyone has jobs and everyone contributes as they can to the mission in the neighborhood.
- It ain’t perfect, neat and clean… I remember a conversation I had with Todd Hunter, Mark Palmer, and Jason Evans where Todd said to us that we would likely have to “cobble something together from a job, support raising, part time staff etc… This is a transitional time and transitions aren’t tidy.” When it comes to day to day realities we all know that there is not a perfect answer or one size fits all. We have to just put the pieces together as they come to us and move toward ideals over time.
- There are prophetic reasons to not get paid by a church namely you can fully speak your mind/heart/word of the Lord and not have in the back of your mind “what will happen if I offend a big giver?” or “I can’t afford to lose my benefits and retirement so I better watch my step in this situation.”
Kevin Rains
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And i will post concerning this in a United Methodist context in the next post. it seems to be very clear that God is working on the hearts and lives of several people at the same time!!! Dang yo!
LORD have mercy…..
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Oh God, come to our assistance. O Lord, make haste to help us.
Praise the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, both now and forever, the God who is, who was, and is the come at the end of the ages. Alleluia.
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The entire United Methodist Church is being represented by almost 1,000 people, and several hunderds more this week in Ft. Worth, TX. They gather to discern the will of God for his people who call themselves United Methodists. This happens every four years, and the event is called General Conference. They represent clergy and laity from every conference all over the entire face of the earth. Who represent every local church in this humongous denomination. And I beg you to pray for them. My father is one of them and a sweet friend and fellow United Methodist Woman (yeah I know if you really want to know how I am one, just email or text me, heh.. it is one of the perks of being a UMC Pastor, heh)
For those of you who are not religious, or just not Christian readers, or maybe those who are attending General Conference this week, there is a movement going on in the church… the whole Christian church. Some call it Emergent, Emerging, post modernism, etc… But it is a movement of a cry of souls from within, for those who claim Jesus as their Lord and King, who say they now live in a new Kingdom, not a democracy, not a denomination, but a Kingdom that has been ushered in by a single man/God whom was and is called Jesus, Christ, Messiah, Teacher, Friend, Brother, Son, Lord, LORD, God, Trinity person. We who claim this man as our king and savior (from selfishness, death, and power), are calling for everyone who now lives and continues to bring his Kingdom to come here on earth as it is in heaven to no longer be satisfied with the status quo, or “the way we have always done it”, or even “we honestly were following God for a time and did not realize that we were loosing touch with true Kingdom reality”.
We realized that we were just as guilty as those who came before us (and are with us now), but there is something inside of all of us that is not satisfied, quenched, or feed. We are restless, unable to hear the clear beautiful voice of God! And we are willing to sacrifice our lives, our families, our careers, our reputations, and our homes to follow the LORD and King of THE Kingdom! We are OK with looking like we are insane, stupid, lazy, young, and unexperienced for the sake of our Triune God, and the people and creation that He loves!
My personal fear, is that this voice is being represented in (a VERY few) cases by those whom are laity in the UMC, and a HUGELY RARE) case (if any) by young clergy. And while there are several other hearts and souls that cry with ours that are older, we fear that they are few and far between and beg for everyone to listen to God’s still small constant voice calling us to to be the example, feet, hands, voice, and loving kindness of the one we call our King, savior, and friend.
And unless we are heard, empowered, plugged in, and joined with, then we fear that the one thing that we love and care for just as much as this creation, and those whom God loves most, is this beautiful bride of our King called the United Methodist Church. We cry out to each of us, “We Love You”, our desire is not for death, separation, or distance, but for unity, passion, authencity, peace, grace, and most of all love. The kind of love that lives and breaths. The kind of love working to bring about restoration, communication, and reformation. A love that at its core is Christ, and Christ alone for the sake of this world and all those whom live in the arms of this beautifully created earth!!!
Lord, save us! Save us while we are awake, protect us while we are asleep, that we may keep our watch with Christ, and when we sleep, rest in his peace. Alleluia!
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Lord, have mercy.
Christ, have mercy.
LORD, have mercy. let us pray………………..
Well here is a different idea.. a documentary (Michael Moore Style) except this time it is Ben Stein doing the documentary and this one is about intelligent design! Yeah, this one talks about how intelligent design is not being taught in schools, and why.
Here is the movie’s website:
What do you think about this?
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Update:
Well Bob, pointed out that there is infact controversary around this movie.. and of course the subject, and showed me this website:
http://www.expelledexposed.com/
another view from differing opinions, so what do yall think?
Here are my notes from a discussion Gary and I had with the clergy of the Louisville District here in the KY Conference of the UMC. I would love to know if yall have any reactions or would like to continue the discussion…
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• What have you done with Young Adult ministry?
• Where have you failed?
• What are your assumptions about young adults?
• What would you like to do with young adults?
YA’s are:
*passionate about community and relationships
* have an uncanny ability to see through “fake”, or “agendas”…and this is the reason that I find most “seeker services” not to be effective at true transformation. (sadly most churches think to reach YA’s that they just have to have a new worship service with “hipper”/”cooler” music.. but this is just not the case.
* passionate about social justice
* love talking about Jesus, but also about Buddha, Hinduism, etc…. live in idealism, but an intelligent reality.
*This is why we must allow messy conversation, and TIME!!!
* The Majority of this generation did not grow up in the church or even receive their fist understandings of faith inside the Christian church.
Potential is Unbelievable: They have a passion for living life in the here and now, like no generations in the past. They are HIGHLY sacrificial in their nature.. most generations take that as being lazy, but they see it as being content and passionate to live the way they feel passionate about. Put emphasis on art, community, and social justice, and Spirituality! They are willing to sell the suburb house to move on the wrong side of the tracks to live out a life that is authentic and bringing chance to poor neighborhoods, etc…
We have not been in conversation with the world! We talk AT people with bible studies, sermons, lessons. And thoses all have an assumption that we are right, and we believe we are right, but YA’s value relationships.. and in relationships the effective ones are not ones that people talk at each other, but WITH each other! It is fine to believe that you are right about beliving in Jesus, but do not assume that they think the same way. Invite them into discussion and wrestle with them in this thing called life.
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Agree? disagree? feel free to start/join the discussion.
Part 2
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The basics:
• Everyone desires relationship and community (Family)
• Everyone has the potential to live a transformed life.
• Everyone can be sensitive to God’s leading and desire for his creation (including other humans)
• People have started appreciating discussion, over lecture. (most don’t wrestle with lecture anymore, we must allow opportunities to wrestle with the bible and God.
* Everyone desires Hope for THIS life, as well as, in the future (Read N.T. Wright’s Book , Surprised by Hope)
Must stop being Pastor centric, and community centric. (priesthood of all believers, and maybe a few that might not beleive
How to add to or transform the UMC?
*Food
*food
*Food
&
* Love
*Love
*Love
Food=discussion
discussion = relationship
relationship = community
community = kingdom living
now in the polity, we need to make room for Clergy to:
*not be itinerate (sp?) (Not to buck the system or hate the current polity, but to actually fall in love and be effective at ministering to those in their community.)
*not be forced into health plans (We care about the large church and the older pastor, of course, but to just keep the young clergy a part of the UMC health care plan to keep the costs down is ridiculous! We can go find out own jobs and this would be much better stewards for the kingdom when it comes to $)
*allowed to get another job in the communities that they live (Not because we think we would be more effective in ministry as a lay person, but because God is calling us to be a part of the community for the sole purpose of developing relationships that will not allow you to be family unless your in it for the long haul… To truly be a part of the community, allow us to move into the “wrong side of the tracks” for the purpose of bringing the Kingdom into being” and they will see through anything else)
*Maybe a few options for younger clergy in the current UMC polity: lay minister (no one knows what this is, so lets just define it to fit the Emerging passions of clergy) Deacons, are perfect for this opportunity!!!! But we need to allow for these things to occur for Elders as well, because God calls us to the sacraments and for D. mins., so the Polity must make room (not to be thrown away or ignored, but to make room for this expression of Emerging Living, or young clergy will continue to leave the ministry, denomination, etc..)
* count differently
1. Not conversions BUT yes to conversations (a focus not on professions of faith (ultimately no know knows when someone has a relationship with Christ, they can have the right words, and actions, but it is relationship (I know several people who are married they say they are married, they live like they are, they even have rings to show that they are, but they are ultimately not ins relationship)…. Relationships… must be the key, and
2. we need to start counting how they are passionately living to transform their communities to bring hope, and life to those that are poor and poor in Spirit! Count those that Praxis new Kingdom living in the very communities that they are living in, and have a passionate love for!
3. Kingdom and people centered not pastor centered!!!
*Encourage young clergy and emerging clergy to be sacrificial and actually live like they serve a crucified God, put up with those that force them to look and act like the older expressions of the UMC.
*We need to stop looking at demographics and start looking for people…. Stop putting God in a box, and start looking for God in others… and that goes beyond district and conference lines BTW. If our focus is not on numbers that represent people, but relationships that represent people!!!!
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OK, that ends my rant and thoughts.. they are not complete and they are not thought out… so this desperately needs discussion! Please know that this is not necessarily a reaction to the frustrations I and others have felt currently, but said and offered for the purpose of bring transformation, reformation, and hope into the future and present of the Kingdom of Christ.
Well, I am @ The Emerging Church for the Existing Church Conference here in Denver right now. Gary (the “Sr. Pastor” @ Florence the support church for Th3 Waters) and we are speaking about how we are living out an example of an Emerging Church can be found within the UMC…. We have found a few loop holes to make it happen, but we must be living this out in this community, because God has called to to this time for such a time as this!!! So anyway, right before Gary and I led the discussion yesterday, I realized that I would need to speak about the UMc as a whole and the place of Emerging in it. And I actually was going to just say the same thing I said @ a previous discussion we did on Young Adults… so I immediatly sat down and just started writting….. I realized I was getting passionate and just had to write down a few othe the things that need to be molded in the UMC to allow this ancient/future way of living to happen in the UMC and especially with the polity of the UMC.. so here is my stream of conscience writting on the topic, and I pray that this will just start a discussion!
(if yallo would like the thoughts I have on Young Adults and ministry to them just let me know.. I can put that up as well. but here are the thoughts I jotted down:
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I wanted to see if family (in its healthiest sense) could actually occur like it seemed to occur like it looked like it did with Christ, when he told those that his Mother and brothers were right there and not outside!!
Only place I saw it happening in our world today that included true life transformation was AA!!!
And so, I am passionate for community. And I mean authentic community, and I define authentic community as Family. (Real Family, I am talkling that you get support because people really love you, if there is a death we are ther for each other, if there is financial problems we attempt to help out anyway we can…. offer a room in your house until people get back on their feet, babysit babies so that parents can have a date night to save marriages, help people study for classes, What ever it is, this is what family looks like and we live like!
We decided that “church”; the term, was so stale and filled with so much baggage that it was actually becoming a hindrance to forming relationships with those outside the UMC/church walls. How can the world be our parish if we are not even in it, have no idea how to talk to it to relate to it, all for the purpose of loving it and building relationshipw ith it???!!!!!
We must stop thinking demographics, and start thinking relationships.
(most annual conference church planting entities are all demographics in thier minset…and I was born for relationships, not numbers!
And I come here to say to the UMC, “you are blind” and you have no voice to anyone in the world, because you have no idea how to think and speak in a way that the world would even consider talking to you, much less desire a relationship with you! And we must learn to take the words of Doug and Tony and Lilly, and Karen, but we must be VERY good at translating it for the UMC. And, I must say I am passionate about loving normal people just as much as I am passionate about loving United Methodists. Are you younger Generation clergy and laity? Are you willing to die for your enemies and those that frustrate you? Ar eyou willing to put your fmaily in danger for the gospel? You are willing to move and live on the wrong side of the tracks, but not to eat with the DS’s and bishops, and those that have a voice in your conference all to help build relationships to invite to live into an existence of experimentation and failure?
And I am sick literally sick of hearing the stories like Bob’s daughter, who says (to those who push the polity of the UMC on her instead of encouraging her to find out how she can being Christ in her envisioned way in the current polity of the UMC, but also come alongside her to pave the way for the future of the UMC to actually stay alive and help bring the kingdom here now…not just waiting around for Christ to come back!!!),
“you have got to be joking, but you just laughed at my soul!” And they leave the UMC. But how do we love and build up young clergy that will realize that God is calling for reformation. And I must say that that is a word that I say with fear and trembling. God is changing the face of his people so they look, and smell like Christ.. and Christ smells like prostitutes, and smokers, and hospitals, and crack houses, and Methodists, and Baptists, and young adults, and death and Bishops, and DS’s.
When you choose Christ, you choose a life of pain, hurt, and sacrifice…. And that sacrifice pisses off those that are in leadership, and governments, and polity. It challenges them to be something they have never been, it forces change..and that is VERY hard!!! But, it is through that sacrifice that we find worship, and hope, and joy… not happiness, but joy in the midst of being in relationship with others that smell like those things that I mentioned above.
So, I am tired of young clergy, and young adults leaving the UMC, or the ministry in general), and (there are older adults that are doing this too, but they just leave quietly, the young adults will leave, but will tell you what is up if you ask them.
I have spoke to young adults who’s families and lives and passion for Christ are hurt so much And FRUSTRATIED sooo much, that they stop it. And they think they have had patience enough (1-3 years) so that change should have occurred, but they are dealing with the older generation (who “got to” where they are in the polity, because they have “put their time in” and lived out the patience for 30 years!!!!) (So, we need for the Older generation to accept the apprecition for experimenting in the kingdom and see the younger generation as a peer and not a young whipper snapper. That they and we learn for each other and live in the Kingdom alongside! And for both generations to stop forcing each to look and act like the other, but to loo, act, and smell like Christ… the one we find in the bible not the one that the church has created over the years.)
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Ok part 2: Hope and Change! is coming up… please join the discussion!
Here is the link to my photos (and a few samples)
D.G.’s Flickr Photos
There was no baby us us this round… only one round left…then we look towards adoption.
Please pray for us.
Christ have mercy.
Lord have mercy.
Christ have mercy.